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Sunday, May 17. 2009
PayPal story - part two
Very well, let's go on. Yesterday I wrote about PayPal problems, regarding BrainKing game site, and explained why BrainKing is about to stop accepting PayPal payments by the end of this month. Now I would like to publish an outcome that could be applied to any other site, based on my observations, experiences and attempts to have a constructive dialog with PayPal representatives.
I would like to add a couple of useful links, where you can find and read many interesting stories, related to problems with PayPal:
http://www.paypalsucks.com/
http://www.paypalwarning.com/
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/
(Thanks Michael!)
By the way, PayPal is not even capable of displaying correct dates at their warning messages. When I log to my PayPal account, the "account limited" message starts with Oct. 16, 2006 which is almost 3 years ago. I would not be surprised if I receive another funny message soon, containing something like "since you failed to send us required documents and you had more than 2 years to do it, we are closing your account, effective immediately". Luckily, it would not be a big problem because I will not risk any more financial transactions with these bastards anymore.
If you still plan to start your business with PayPal, well, good luck. Of course, you might be one of lucky guys who never experience any problems, most likely because PayPal's random number generator does not mark your account as "suspicious". However, please keep in mind that Your PayPal account can be frozen at any time, without advance notice, leaving you without your money for months (if not forever), and there isn't much you can do about it. You have been warned.
Part three - The Hypocrisy
- It is not possible to communicate with them. The only way to contact a PayPal employee is to use a web based form and it is not an easy task to find it, you must click through 3-4 pages (which try to confuse you offering "typical answers") before you are allowed to write your specific question. I am sure that many people simply give up and don't get to this point anyway, and I am also sure that it's a part of PayPal policy to avoid problem solving at all.
- The "contact us" form is limited to 1000 characters only. Of course, it should be enough for normal questions, but if you need to add a very detailed description to support your opinion (which is my case), you are forced to fall back to abbreviations, simplifications and similar things. The result is that your question is too difficult to understand, ergo you cannot expect to get a reasonable response.
- Actually, the web form limitation would not be a big problem if you have a chance to contact them in another way (for instance, to send a normal email). It is not possible, of course. Even if you get a response to your question, you cannot reply to it, because such email returns with a short note "please use our Contact Us form if you have any further questions". If you do it, the second question is usually picked by an absolutely different person who is not aware of your former inquiry, and the eternal loop is going on and on. Conclusion - if you have a complex problem which cannot be solved by a simple question and answer, you have no chance to solve it.
- If PayPal wants you to provide some documents, it never tells you what documents you should start to gather. The only thing you know is that it must be legal opinion, but everybody knows that the law is very complicated and what is valid in one country, can be totally worthless in another one. Just imagine - you hire a lawyer, give him an awful amount of money to write a legal document which you only believe to be the correct one, send it to PayPal and then get a short response "sorry but this document is not acceptable". Bureaucrats of all countries, unite!
I would like to add a couple of useful links, where you can find and read many interesting stories, related to problems with PayPal:
http://www.paypalsucks.com/
http://www.paypalwarning.com/
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/
(Thanks Michael!)
By the way, PayPal is not even capable of displaying correct dates at their warning messages. When I log to my PayPal account, the "account limited" message starts with Oct. 16, 2006 which is almost 3 years ago. I would not be surprised if I receive another funny message soon, containing something like "since you failed to send us required documents and you had more than 2 years to do it, we are closing your account, effective immediately". Luckily, it would not be a big problem because I will not risk any more financial transactions with these bastards anymore.
If you still plan to start your business with PayPal, well, good luck. Of course, you might be one of lucky guys who never experience any problems, most likely because PayPal's random number generator does not mark your account as "suspicious". However, please keep in mind that Your PayPal account can be frozen at any time, without advance notice, leaving you without your money for months (if not forever), and there isn't much you can do about it. You have been warned.
Part three - The Hypocrisy
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Here in the United States Pay Pal has a customer service phone number where you can call and talk about Pay Pal account limitations and all other account topics. You can locate it by clicking on the contact us link on the United States Pay Pal web site.
Comment (1)
Everybody knows that PayPal hotline is just for fun and never helps anyone. For instance, read this story: http://www.paypalwarning.com/i_curse_the_day_paypal
There are tons of similar articles at the sites I mentioned at my blog entry.
There are tons of similar articles at the sites I mentioned at my blog entry.
Comments (3)
Well, it sounds to me like you have done everything reasonable to straighten it out.
I think customers get a different experience with Paypal, than Vendors do. At least that's my impression.
I wonder which of the other payment options is most popular with other Americans. I have to admit, I am reluctant to just "try" the other ones. I, like many others, have been using PayPal for years.
Thank you for your efforts, Fencer.
I think customers get a different experience with Paypal, than Vendors do. At least that's my impression.
I wonder which of the other payment options is most popular with other Americans. I have to admit, I am reluctant to just "try" the other ones. I, like many others, have been using PayPal for years.
Thank you for your efforts, Fencer.
Comment (1)
And that's just the most important part of PayPal's strategy and policy. They know that the majority of customers are just used to PayPal and don't want to mess with other payment gateways, and this situation would simply force vendors to accept PayPal payments, no matter how they actually hate this company and how many problems they have with them.
Luckily, we don't live on paid membership fees.
And our top advertising partners always use a wire transfer because they know it is the safest way to send higher amounts of money.
Luckily, we don't live on paid membership fees.
And our top advertising partners always use a wire transfer because they know it is the safest way to send higher amounts of money.Comments (3)
Well, Fencer, you do strike me as a suspicious character. We all know the gambling culture surrounding chess, shogi, and go.
"As through this world I ramble I've met lots of funny men, some will rob you with a six-gun and some with a fountain pen.
But as through this world I ramble and through this world I roam, I ain't never seen an outlaw rob a family of thier home."
American folk-singer Woody Guthrie
"As through this world I ramble I've met lots of funny men, some will rob you with a six-gun and some with a fountain pen.
But as through this world I ramble and through this world I roam, I ain't never seen an outlaw rob a family of thier home."
American folk-singer Woody Guthrie
Comment (1)
I agree. The PayPal hotline is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
One way to get a longer message to them is to post it to a web page and then send them a link to it.
One way to get a longer message to them is to post it to a web page and then send them a link to it.
Comment (1)
thank you for the reminder of why i've wanted to get away from paypal in the past.
i've made one interesting observation: all three of those sites whose links you posted at the end of your article send their readers to the same page as an alternative to paypal. while i don't doubt the horror stories a bit - i've heard too many of them and experienced enough of paypal's mindlessness myself to doubt the stories - the fact that all of those sites are promoting the same alternative to paypal makes me wonder if they don't have an ulterior motive.
what do people think, or better, know, about that?
i've made one interesting observation: all three of those sites whose links you posted at the end of your article send their readers to the same page as an alternative to paypal. while i don't doubt the horror stories a bit - i've heard too many of them and experienced enough of paypal's mindlessness myself to doubt the stories - the fact that all of those sites are promoting the same alternative to paypal makes me wonder if they don't have an ulterior motive.
what do people think, or better, know, about that?
Comments (3)
hmm...and i just read this on http://www.ablogaboutnothing.com/paypal-sucks/ :
Frank (1 comments.) says:
January 3, 2008 at 8:28 pm
FYI, Paypalsucks.com was created by Marshall Golub whois affiliated with Charge.com who is a reseller for Cardservices International. Cardservices International are the biggest crooks on the internet and nickle and dime merchants to death. So as far as the *WORST*, I mean absolute, beyond a shadow of a doubt, WORST merchant account provider on the internet, it’s hands down Cardservices International. I can’t begin to explain how horrible their customer service is. They bill you $10 just to send you a paper statement but they neglect to tell you that they DO NOT have an online interface to check your billing. To make matters worse, they DO NOT provide any real contact information, the only way I got their mailing address was by blocking them from charging my bank account and getting put on their collections list, then an employee who called me told me the company is a huge scam and she was quitting because she was sick of all the complaints from poor people she was calling. She then gave me a list of phone numbers and their snail mail address.
Stay away from PaypalSucks.com, merchantinc.com and anything related to CardServices International or you will regret it.
=-=-=
so it does appear that those three sites - all of which recommend CardServices International as an alternative to paypal - are motivated at least in part by a desire to get paypal users' business for themselves...
Frank (1 comments.) says:
January 3, 2008 at 8:28 pm
FYI, Paypalsucks.com was created by Marshall Golub whois affiliated with Charge.com who is a reseller for Cardservices International. Cardservices International are the biggest crooks on the internet and nickle and dime merchants to death. So as far as the *WORST*, I mean absolute, beyond a shadow of a doubt, WORST merchant account provider on the internet, it’s hands down Cardservices International. I can’t begin to explain how horrible their customer service is. They bill you $10 just to send you a paper statement but they neglect to tell you that they DO NOT have an online interface to check your billing. To make matters worse, they DO NOT provide any real contact information, the only way I got their mailing address was by blocking them from charging my bank account and getting put on their collections list, then an employee who called me told me the company is a huge scam and she was quitting because she was sick of all the complaints from poor people she was calling. She then gave me a list of phone numbers and their snail mail address.
Stay away from PaypalSucks.com, merchantinc.com and anything related to CardServices International or you will regret it.
=-=-=
so it does appear that those three sites - all of which recommend CardServices International as an alternative to paypal - are motivated at least in part by a desire to get paypal users' business for themselves...
Comments (3)
Good point. I would not recommend to click on the "PayPal alternative" links either. Actually, I have tried it just for information, but since the "sign up" link leads to something what contains just an IP address instead of a proper domain, it is very suspicious anyway.
I would take the mentioned pages only as a source of PayPal experience, nothing else.
I would take the mentioned pages only as a source of PayPal experience, nothing else.
Comments (3)
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