Monday, February 18. 2008
Knight Fight game proposal
This new game proposal has been sent by Andy Lewicki, the author of the game called Cheversi, which is already implemented on BrainKing.
==================================================
The game of Knight Fight is played on a 10x10 board. 100 squares are assigned, in a randomly fashion, numbers running from 00 to 99 (00, 01, 02, ..., 97, 98, 99). Each player has one knight of different color.
The game starts by placing a (let's say white) knight on any chosen square on the board. If the chosen square is numbered with two different digits, let's say 57, then, as a consequence a mirrored number 75 is erased from the board making this square unusable for further game, which means, no knight may land on it till the end of the game.
If a knight lands on a "double" number, let's say 66, then any other "double" number can be erased and the player decides which one depending on his/her strategy. After a player leaves a square to jump on another the square, the square he/she resided so far, becomes unusable for further game.
A knight cannot land on an empty (unusable) square and also cannot land on a square which is under direct attack of the opponent's knight.
The whole idea behind all the jumps is to outsmart the opponent and by choosing correct square to jump on trying to corner the opponent and leave him without a square to jump to.
Game ends when on of the players has no place to land and the other player is a winner.
==================================================
Any comments would be appreciated.
==================================================
The game of Knight Fight is played on a 10x10 board. 100 squares are assigned, in a randomly fashion, numbers running from 00 to 99 (00, 01, 02, ..., 97, 98, 99). Each player has one knight of different color.The game starts by placing a (let's say white) knight on any chosen square on the board. If the chosen square is numbered with two different digits, let's say 57, then, as a consequence a mirrored number 75 is erased from the board making this square unusable for further game, which means, no knight may land on it till the end of the game.
If a knight lands on a "double" number, let's say 66, then any other "double" number can be erased and the player decides which one depending on his/her strategy. After a player leaves a square to jump on another the square, the square he/she resided so far, becomes unusable for further game.
A knight cannot land on an empty (unusable) square and also cannot land on a square which is under direct attack of the opponent's knight.
The whole idea behind all the jumps is to outsmart the opponent and by choosing correct square to jump on trying to corner the opponent and leave him without a square to jump to.
Game ends when on of the players has no place to land and the other player is a winner.
==================================================
Any comments would be appreciated.
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Nice idea, but I think it is too similar to Amazons. I would like if the numbers would play more of a role in the game. Like.. Have the numbers placed at random and then have the game be carried out in such a way that each time you land on a square, the points are added to your score. In the end, the player who corners the opponent AND has more points, wins. If one is cornered and more points, DRAW and if cornered and less points, loss.
Comment (1)
Hi, thanks for your comment ... historically speaking the Knight
problem is the one studied the most and all the other chess figures, including Queens, are not so much interesting ...
Actually it was my initial idea of counting points while jumping ... my first draft to Fencer was almost exactly the same as your proposal ... but I changed my mind for one reason ...
Personally I like games with one and only one goal ... either we fight for teritorry in Knigh Fight or for points ... combining these two objectives will make this game a puzzle for the computer ... before each jump you will have to answer two questions: should I jump to collect points or to block the opponent ... It may appeal to some players, and I am not saying this idea is wrong, but to me one goal is enough ... there were many attemps to make Knight problem more attractive, but my idea of randomly distributing numbers from 00 to 99 across the board and use their mirror-like characteristics (eg. 38-83) is completely new to the best of my knowledge ...
Anyway, thanks for your opinion and maybe one day we will try
Knight Fight.
Andy.
problem is the one studied the most and all the other chess figures, including Queens, are not so much interesting ...
Actually it was my initial idea of counting points while jumping ... my first draft to Fencer was almost exactly the same as your proposal ... but I changed my mind for one reason ...
Personally I like games with one and only one goal ... either we fight for teritorry in Knigh Fight or for points ... combining these two objectives will make this game a puzzle for the computer ... before each jump you will have to answer two questions: should I jump to collect points or to block the opponent ... It may appeal to some players, and I am not saying this idea is wrong, but to me one goal is enough ... there were many attemps to make Knight problem more attractive, but my idea of randomly distributing numbers from 00 to 99 across the board and use their mirror-like characteristics (eg. 38-83) is completely new to the best of my knowledge ...
Anyway, thanks for your opinion and maybe one day we will try
Knight Fight.
Andy.
Comments (10)
I am not sure if I fully understand the rules - the first move is to place a white knight on any square, followed by placing a black knight on any other square not being attacked by the white one, and then the game continues with chess knight jumps?
So, if the white player puts his knight to the A1 square, can black immediately win by putting his knight to the D4 square, attacking all fields where the white one can jump to?
So, if the white player puts his knight to the A1 square, can black immediately win by putting his knight to the D4 square, attacking all fields where the white one can jump to?
Comments (9)
Yes, you are right, A1 is a suicidal move for the starting Knight .... the question could be: do we have to move into A1 ?
We don't, but I understand it doesn't answer the real question.
We can easily change the rules stating that the first move for both colors should be on the 1st and 10th row respectively ...
Thanks for this finding.
Andy.
We don't, but I understand it doesn't answer the real question.
We can easily change the rules stating that the first move for both colors should be on the 1st and 10th row respectively ...
Thanks for this finding.
Andy.
Comments (10)
Yes, that's a good idea. And it would avoid a situation when an unexperienced player starts at A1 or another corner square and instantly loses the game, so he could easily lose an interest to play again too.
Comments (9)
thanks for comment ... frankly, majority of chess-like games starts from the row 1 and 10, so there will be no problem with this arrangement.
Andy.
Andy.
Comments (10)
the way I understood it was that if you place a knight on a1 the only square blocked by you would be 57 (i7 in the diagram). perhaps the pieces do not interfere with one another (i.e. d4 simply permanently blocks 74 in the diagram ... but does not interfere with a knight on a1, except that the two pieces can't be on the same square. That would seem most interesting to me. Teambundy is probably right ... the strategies of amazons are very similar to this ... but not really enough alike to warrant overlooking this interesting idea.
Comment (1)
I am not a statistican, but I can see the astronomical number of ditribution of our double digits across the board ... it's unlikely we will see the same board again ... but for every imaginable board there is a "problem" with starting in a corner ... A1, A10, J1, J1o ... maybe this is not a problem if you do not go there (smoking is not a problem if you choose not to smoke) ...
One thing is for sure. Every landing on a board removes 2 squares out if it ... the one we landed on and corresponding
mirrored square ... jumping onto a "doubled" square gives us
even more opportunities to think strategically ...
I appreciate your comment.
Andy.
One thing is for sure. Every landing on a board removes 2 squares out if it ... the one we landed on and corresponding
mirrored square ... jumping onto a "doubled" square gives us
even more opportunities to think strategically ...
I appreciate your comment.
Andy.
Comments (10)
There is another idea making it more stratetical:
Each number is containing two parts: The tenths and the ones.
Ex: the number 57 is containing the 5 tenth and the 7 ones part.
Now if a player lands on a number he can choose if he want to destroy another number containing the same tenth part or the same ones part. ex: a player landing on a square with a 63 can either destroy another square containing a 6 in the tenths or a 3 in the ones.
Due this there can be a further win condition: To force the other player to move such way that he can not destroy any other squares. ex: you force the other player to move on a 27 square and there is neither a 2X nor an X7 square left.
Each number is containing two parts: The tenths and the ones.
Ex: the number 57 is containing the 5 tenth and the 7 ones part.
Now if a player lands on a number he can choose if he want to destroy another number containing the same tenth part or the same ones part. ex: a player landing on a square with a 63 can either destroy another square containing a 6 in the tenths or a 3 in the ones.
Due this there can be a further win condition: To force the other player to move such way that he can not destroy any other squares. ex: you force the other player to move on a 27 square and there is neither a 2X nor an X7 square left.
Comments (3)
I like this idea. The random factor is lowered and it gives you more options to plan a strategy.
However, it would be good to have it tested first.
However, it would be good to have it tested first.
Comments (9)
At first glance white may get the (very small) advantage of moving first if you reduce the random factor too much. But then again the numbers are still distributed randomly, that might be anough...
Comments (2)
Another good thing I like about this game (either variant) - the board has 100 squares in it. Each move takes away 4 of those (the 2 the knights land on and the other 2 selected by the players). So, in theory, a game can have at most 25 moves for each player and will probably have a lot less, making this a good game for a site such as BK where long games can become tedious.
By the way, I think it would be only fair that if both players can clear the board up (all 100 squares be made inaccessible) the game would be declared as a draw. It just doesn't seem right black should win in such an event (no matter how unlikely it is).
Another thing to consider - a stalemate like condition - if a knight cannot move because he's "surrounded" by inaccessible squares then he loses; however, if he cannot move because all the possible moves are covered by the enemy knight then it's a stalemate... just like in regular chess (and this is an inspired chess game after all).
This variant has two drawbacks in my oppinion - inexperient players will easilly fall back into the stalemate and be surprised with a draw (just like in chess where many people today think that a stalemate should be a win and not a draw); and the game will probably tend to drag a few more moves on average while the players try to avoid stalemate positions.
On the other hand I think it becomes even more strategic - you can try to force your opponent into a draw if things look bad for you
By the way, I think it would be only fair that if both players can clear the board up (all 100 squares be made inaccessible) the game would be declared as a draw. It just doesn't seem right black should win in such an event (no matter how unlikely it is).
Another thing to consider - a stalemate like condition - if a knight cannot move because he's "surrounded" by inaccessible squares then he loses; however, if he cannot move because all the possible moves are covered by the enemy knight then it's a stalemate... just like in regular chess (and this is an inspired chess game after all).
This variant has two drawbacks in my oppinion - inexperient players will easilly fall back into the stalemate and be surprised with a draw (just like in chess where many people today think that a stalemate should be a win and not a draw); and the game will probably tend to drag a few more moves on average while the players try to avoid stalemate positions.
On the other hand I think it becomes even more strategic - you can try to force your opponent into a draw if things look bad for you
Comments (2)
I like the stalemate condition because, as you say, a sudden draw threat must be considered when a strategy is planned. Of course, it is up to dicepro to make the final decision but I would vote for that.
Comments (9)
I think it looks a fun and quickish game 
Only comment i would make is to agree with one earlier, that number from 0 - 9 be preceded with a 0 on the board, this when reversed they would be a number (01 ---> 10, 04 ---> 40 etc...)
Lets practice
Only comment i would make is to agree with one earlier, that number from 0 - 9 be preceded with a 0 on the board, this when reversed they would be a number (01 ---> 10, 04 ---> 40 etc...)
Lets practice
Comment (1)
Wow, thanks for so many comments ... I like the idea that you like the idea, lol ... there is nothing worse when no responses.
It seams that there is no limit to our imagination for crerating
new or modify old rules to any game ... I do not remember who said this, but I know it's very powerful:
1. Rules for any game should be short and easy to undestand.
2. Using these rules, game should be playable by complete amateur and an expert with the same satisfaction.
Basic rules are simple, every knight has somewhere between 8 or less (at the beginning stage) squares to jump to ... each square is mapped to another squares to choose from based on our strategy ... doubled squares provide even more opportunities to block the opponent ... now, let's assume we have 6 available squraes to land on ... let jump to 27 ... instead of killing just 72 we have a choice of any square in the range of 2X ...it gives us around 8 choices ... now, multiplay this by 6 initial choices and we get around 48 .... this is just an example for illustration how deep our strategic thinkig will go ...
I was exchanging correspondence with David Parlett, one of the authority on card and board games ... I asked him what he thinks about playing a game of domino with completely open, 14 in each hand, tiles ... he told me, that the whole spirit of domino will be killed and there will be no fun in playing since you will be calculating, calculating and calculating ...
So, I am not completely rejecting Seravajans idea of expanding the game, but I am affraid it will be a version for experts and not for the general population ... and I was aiming at the fast and fun game for everybody ...
What do you say guys ? Am I missing or misinterpreting something ?
I appreciate your input.
Andy.
It seams that there is no limit to our imagination for crerating
new or modify old rules to any game ... I do not remember who said this, but I know it's very powerful:
1. Rules for any game should be short and easy to undestand.
2. Using these rules, game should be playable by complete amateur and an expert with the same satisfaction.
Basic rules are simple, every knight has somewhere between 8 or less (at the beginning stage) squares to jump to ... each square is mapped to another squares to choose from based on our strategy ... doubled squares provide even more opportunities to block the opponent ... now, let's assume we have 6 available squraes to land on ... let jump to 27 ... instead of killing just 72 we have a choice of any square in the range of 2X ...it gives us around 8 choices ... now, multiplay this by 6 initial choices and we get around 48 .... this is just an example for illustration how deep our strategic thinkig will go ...
I was exchanging correspondence with David Parlett, one of the authority on card and board games ... I asked him what he thinks about playing a game of domino with completely open, 14 in each hand, tiles ... he told me, that the whole spirit of domino will be killed and there will be no fun in playing since you will be calculating, calculating and calculating ...
So, I am not completely rejecting Seravajans idea of expanding the game, but I am affraid it will be a version for experts and not for the general population ... and I was aiming at the fast and fun game for everybody ...
What do you say guys ? Am I missing or misinterpreting something ?
I appreciate your input.
Andy.
Comments (10)
Draw or stalmate ... first let completely understand the situation where there is a WIN ...
Player A wins when ... after his move he is still able to move to another asquare and at the SAME time his opponent lacks any available square to jump to ... either there are only "empty" squares within his reach, or there is one or more squares under attack of player A ...
Now, DRAW happens when after his move, player A has no more availbale squares to jump to and at the SAME time, either by player's A action or B's suicidal earlier move(s), player B lacks any available square to jump to ... this is a DRAW in my understanding ...
Simply stating, a win is when the opponent has no more moves, and a draw when both of the players find themselves in a situtation without a move as a consequence of a move of either one of them ...
Do you have any other thoughts or proposals ?
Thanks for your the opportunity to discuss the rules with you.
Andy.
Player A wins when ... after his move he is still able to move to another asquare and at the SAME time his opponent lacks any available square to jump to ... either there are only "empty" squares within his reach, or there is one or more squares under attack of player A ...
Now, DRAW happens when after his move, player A has no more availbale squares to jump to and at the SAME time, either by player's A action or B's suicidal earlier move(s), player B lacks any available square to jump to ... this is a DRAW in my understanding ...
Simply stating, a win is when the opponent has no more moves, and a draw when both of the players find themselves in a situtation without a move as a consequence of a move of either one of them ...
Do you have any other thoughts or proposals ?
Thanks for your the opportunity to discuss the rules with you.
Andy.
Comments (10)
I wonder if it would be possible to play Knight Fight somewhere on site by 8-10 of us to test it ? mayby there is some bug we are not aware of or situation that needs further clarification ...
What do you think about it Fencer ?
Regards,
Andy.
What do you think about it Fencer ?
Regards,
Andy.
Comments (10)
Yes, it would be possible, just like I did it for Big Jungle testing. I'll try to set up a test environment soon.
Comments (9)
However - before I set up any kind of a test model, it would be good to make an agreement of the exact rules which should be implemented for that.
Could you please respond with the current version of rules which you believe is the best one?
Could you please respond with the current version of rules which you believe is the best one?
Comments (9)
Sure, no problem ... here are the rules.
1. Board 10x10
2. Numbers from 00-99 are randomly distributed across the board.
3. Two Knights, black an white.
4. White starts first by placing the Knight on any chosen square
on the first row.
5. Black responds by placing the Knight on any chosen (and available of course) square on the 10th row
6. There are two sets of numbers assigned to entire board.
First one- numbers with two different digits, ex. 58 Each such a number has its mirror-like number, ex 58-85 ...
Second one - numbers with two, the same digits, ex. 77, there 10 of them, 2 pairs of two.
7. If the player lands on a number from the first set, (ex. 49 ) its corresponding number , mirror-like 94 is erased from the board. Of course, the number on the square the player landed is also erased after the Knight leaves it for another square.
If the player lands on a dubbled number from the second set, (ex. 88) the player has a choice to delete any other doubled number from the board.
8. Knight in subsequent moves CANNOT land on a square without number on it (it has been erased before) or come under direct attack by opponent's Knight ...
9. WIN is achieved when a player AFTER his move has still squares he can land on , and at the SAME time the opponent's Knight has no available square to jump to .
10. DRAW is achieved when a player AFTER his move cannot make any further moves and as a consequence of his move, his opponent has no place to jump to ... (suicide and murder at the same time, lol).
******
And one more thing. Please make sure that by pointing on any square with our mouse, the corresponding, mirror-like or doubled numbers are higlighted or in some way outlined ... we can save a lot of time this way.
I think that's it. Let's try it.
Regards,
Andy.
1. Board 10x10
2. Numbers from 00-99 are randomly distributed across the board.
3. Two Knights, black an white.
4. White starts first by placing the Knight on any chosen square
on the first row.
5. Black responds by placing the Knight on any chosen (and available of course) square on the 10th row
6. There are two sets of numbers assigned to entire board.
First one- numbers with two different digits, ex. 58 Each such a number has its mirror-like number, ex 58-85 ...
Second one - numbers with two, the same digits, ex. 77, there 10 of them, 2 pairs of two.
7. If the player lands on a number from the first set, (ex. 49 ) its corresponding number , mirror-like 94 is erased from the board. Of course, the number on the square the player landed is also erased after the Knight leaves it for another square.
If the player lands on a dubbled number from the second set, (ex. 88) the player has a choice to delete any other doubled number from the board.
8. Knight in subsequent moves CANNOT land on a square without number on it (it has been erased before) or come under direct attack by opponent's Knight ...
9. WIN is achieved when a player AFTER his move has still squares he can land on , and at the SAME time the opponent's Knight has no available square to jump to .
10. DRAW is achieved when a player AFTER his move cannot make any further moves and as a consequence of his move, his opponent has no place to jump to ... (suicide and murder at the same time, lol).
******
And one more thing. Please make sure that by pointing on any square with our mouse, the corresponding, mirror-like or doubled numbers are higlighted or in some way outlined ... we can save a lot of time this way.
I think that's it. Let's try it.
Regards,
Andy.
Comments (10)
Very well, thank you. Except the mouse-over highlighting feature (which requires some JavaScript, so it's not too straightforward to implement) it should be quite easy to do.
If nothing goes wrong, the test model could be prepared tomorrow.
If nothing goes wrong, the test model could be prepared tomorrow.
Comments (9)
ok, thanks ...
Comments (10)
How is the status on the test board?
Comments (3)
It is not ready yet. There are more important things to solve at this moment.
Comments (9)
Is it possible to make a variant with the following ruleset:
1. Board 10x10
2. Numbers from 00-99 are randomly distributed across the board.
3. Two Knights, black and white.
4. White starts first by placing the Knight on any chosen square
on the first row.
5. Black responds by placing the Knight on any chosen (and available of course) square on the 10th row
6. There are special sets of numbers assigned to entire board.
White is corresponding to the tenth and black to the ones.
7. If the player lands on a number, (ex. 49 ) he can select a number which contains the same ciffre in the tenth for white (4X) or the same ciffre in the ones for black (X9) is erased from the board. Of course, the number on the square the player landed is also erased after the Knight leaves it for another square.
8. Knight in subsequent moves CANNOT land on a square without number on it (it has been erased before) or come under direct attack by opponent's Knight ...
9. WIN is achieved when a player AFTER his move has still squares he can land on , and at the SAME time the opponent's Knight has no available square to jump to . Furthermore a win is achieved by preventing the opponent being able to remove a number because there is no valid number left. ex: black is forced to move to a 47 square but all other X7 squares are already gone.
10. DRAW is achieved when a player AFTER his move cannot make any further moves and as a consequence of his move, his opponent has no place to jump to ... (suicide and murder at the same time, lol).
******
And one more thing. Please make sure that by pointing on any square with our mouse, the corresponding, mirror-like or doubled numbers are higlighted or in some way outlined ... we can save a lot of time this way.
I think that's it. Let's try it.
1. Board 10x10
2. Numbers from 00-99 are randomly distributed across the board.
3. Two Knights, black and white.
4. White starts first by placing the Knight on any chosen square
on the first row.
5. Black responds by placing the Knight on any chosen (and available of course) square on the 10th row
6. There are special sets of numbers assigned to entire board.
White is corresponding to the tenth and black to the ones.
7. If the player lands on a number, (ex. 49 ) he can select a number which contains the same ciffre in the tenth for white (4X) or the same ciffre in the ones for black (X9) is erased from the board. Of course, the number on the square the player landed is also erased after the Knight leaves it for another square.
8. Knight in subsequent moves CANNOT land on a square without number on it (it has been erased before) or come under direct attack by opponent's Knight ...
9. WIN is achieved when a player AFTER his move has still squares he can land on , and at the SAME time the opponent's Knight has no available square to jump to . Furthermore a win is achieved by preventing the opponent being able to remove a number because there is no valid number left. ex: black is forced to move to a 47 square but all other X7 squares are already gone.
10. DRAW is achieved when a player AFTER his move cannot make any further moves and as a consequence of his move, his opponent has no place to jump to ... (suicide and murder at the same time, lol).
******
And one more thing. Please make sure that by pointing on any square with our mouse, the corresponding, mirror-like or doubled numbers are higlighted or in some way outlined ... we can save a lot of time this way.
I think that's it. Let's try it.
Comments (3)
A test version of Knight Fight has been released.
"Test" means that I am the only one who can create the game invitations. If someone is interested, please contact me.
"Test" means that I am the only one who can create the game invitations.
If someone is interested, please contact me.Comments (9)
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