Thursday, February 14. 2008
A proposal of Jungle variant
The game proposal of the day has been created by ColonelCrockett and Retep, and the intention of this variant is to bring new ideas and possibilities to the classic Jungle game and make it less "drawish".
The idea for a jungle variant is pretty simple. The "hierarchy" of jungle pieces is the same as in regular jungle except that the board will be bigger and more pieces added (see the screenshot). The new board is 9x9 (adding a file on either side of the existing board). The extra pieces follow the "zigzag" placement pattern to be at either end of the second and eighth rank.
The two new pieces are the monkey and the snake. The monkey is just above the cat in the hierarchy of animals but moves like a chess king. The monkey is on a player’s left (elephant side for either player). Once the new ranks are added to either side of the jungle board that would put a white monkey on a2 and a black one on i8. The Snake is at the opposite end of the 8 and 2 rank from the monkey. (a8 and i2 on the new board). It moves like a Silver General in Shogi (i.e. diagonally a singly square and forward a single square). His place in the hierarchy of animals is between the dog and leopard.
To compensate for the larger board two water squares are added … one at each end of the 5th rank (a5 and i5 on the 9x9 board).
And, as usual, comments are welcome.
The idea for a jungle variant is pretty simple. The "hierarchy" of jungle pieces is the same as in regular jungle except that the board will be bigger and more pieces added (see the screenshot). The new board is 9x9 (adding a file on either side of the existing board). The extra pieces follow the "zigzag" placement pattern to be at either end of the second and eighth rank.The two new pieces are the monkey and the snake. The monkey is just above the cat in the hierarchy of animals but moves like a chess king. The monkey is on a player’s left (elephant side for either player). Once the new ranks are added to either side of the jungle board that would put a white monkey on a2 and a black one on i8. The Snake is at the opposite end of the 8 and 2 rank from the monkey. (a8 and i2 on the new board). It moves like a Silver General in Shogi (i.e. diagonally a singly square and forward a single square). His place in the hierarchy of animals is between the dog and leopard.
To compensate for the larger board two water squares are added … one at each end of the 5th rank (a5 and i5 on the 9x9 board).
And, as usual, comments are welcome.
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I'm amazed to see how fast our idea was added 
At the moment I am thinking about the water at a5 and i5... we could take it away. We could also take it away and put both 2x3 waters one column to the sides, leaving 3 columns of land in the middle.
But it's also possible that leaving it like that would be best.. in case tiger and lion also can jump above a5 and i5. At the moment I only try to imagine how it could be without any testing.
At the moment I am thinking about the water at a5 and i5... we could take it away. We could also take it away and put both 2x3 waters one column to the sides, leaving 3 columns of land in the middle.
But it's also possible that leaving it like that would be best.. in case tiger and lion also can jump above a5 and i5. At the moment I only try to imagine how it could be without any testing.
Comments (2)
I think it makes no harm if the board is left as it is.
Anyway, I recommend to play some test games before the final version of rules is settled.
Anyway, I recommend to play some test games before the final version of rules is settled.
Comments (8)
The idea credits go to Retep mostly ... because he recommended the project to me to begin with 
. I came up with the idea of the 9x9 board, the snake, and the water configuration (in the image above). Retep came up with the monkey and has his own ideas for the water configuration (which he pretty much outlined in his comment). The most difficult part of the project was our inability to practically test the variant. I think that would settle the "are the new pieces useful?" question pretty quickly and "which configuration is good for the water squares?" would soon follow.
. I came up with the idea of the 9x9 board, the snake, and the water configuration (in the image above). Retep came up with the monkey and has his own ideas for the water configuration (which he pretty much outlined in his comment). The most difficult part of the project was our inability to practically test the variant. I think that would settle the "are the new pieces useful?" question pretty quickly and "which configuration is good for the water squares?" would soon follow.Comments (8)
Very well, I will add Retep to the list of authors.
Perhaps I'd be able to set up a test environment for this game.
By the way, what is the suggested name of the game?
Perhaps I'd be able to set up a test environment for this game.
By the way, what is the suggested name of the game?
Comments (8)
I just wanted credit where it was due.
hmm, the name of the variant? That was something Retep and I did not discuss (possibly to avoid an argument, lol). "Big Jungle" is the first thing that comes to my mind but if another variant were to come along I think it would be on a 9x9 board as well (making the name 'big jungle' fit both variants).
Since the new pieces are 'chess-ic' or 'shogi-ic' perhaps an apprpriate name would use either a chess term or a shogi term.
Tesuji Jungle?
hmm, the name of the variant? That was something Retep and I did not discuss (possibly to avoid an argument, lol). "Big Jungle" is the first thing that comes to my mind but if another variant were to come along I think it would be on a 9x9 board as well (making the name 'big jungle' fit both variants).
Since the new pieces are 'chess-ic' or 'shogi-ic' perhaps an apprpriate name would use either a chess term or a shogi term.
Tesuji Jungle?
Comments (8)
I think that Big Jungle is good enough. If nothing else, it would be easy to translate to other languages.
Comments (8)
I am just thinking of one thing, regarding the rules of this variant.
It is about the movement options of new pieces because, given their ability to move diagonally, they can avoid the traps (pink fields) to get into opponent's lair. Ergo, if these animals succeed to move near the enemy base and no stronger opponent piece is located close to them, they cannot be stopped. It is not a big issue for the monkey, being a rather weak animal, but the snake is much stronger because only leopards and higher animals can stop him (and the other snake, of course).
But perhaps I am wrong and this outcome is intentional, because players would be forced to play more defensively.
It is about the movement options of new pieces because, given their ability to move diagonally, they can avoid the traps (pink fields) to get into opponent's lair. Ergo, if these animals succeed to move near the enemy base and no stronger opponent piece is located close to them, they cannot be stopped. It is not a big issue for the monkey, being a rather weak animal, but the snake is much stronger because only leopards and higher animals can stop him (and the other snake, of course).
But perhaps I am wrong and this outcome is intentional, because players would be forced to play more defensively.
Comments (8)
Oh, yes, I had thought about this and forgotten. I think the simplest solution (and the one I had in mind) is to require that a piece pass through a magenta square (therefore requiring that the snake ... although more powerful than a monkey ... is less useful in the opponent's camp because he can only access the 'front' magenta square to get to the den ... although he can threaten the other magenta squares and escort another piece into them (a black snake sitting where the white cat is in the diagram is a good example).
This question is good though ... could it be possible to leave the rules as they are and make the monkey and snake more powerhouse like? That might require a 'demotion' of the snake in the hierarchy ... I never thought of the piece as too powerful but if your opponent has to keep a leopard or better near his den to fend them both off ... that's more complex.
Here again we come to the difficulty. Testing the game with both rule sets is a good idea. I'm wondering if maybe brainking (or more appropriately, you, Fencer ) could implement an 'analysis tool' allowing a single player to move pieces freely in a game against himself... this would be a new feature for already existing games but also make playtesting easier.
This question is good though ... could it be possible to leave the rules as they are and make the monkey and snake more powerhouse like? That might require a 'demotion' of the snake in the hierarchy ... I never thought of the piece as too powerful but if your opponent has to keep a leopard or better near his den to fend them both off ... that's more complex.
Here again we come to the difficulty. Testing the game with both rule sets is a good idea. I'm wondering if maybe brainking (or more appropriately, you, Fencer
) could implement an 'analysis tool' allowing a single player to move pieces freely in a game against himself... this would be a new feature for already existing games but also make playtesting easier.Comments (8)
oh, and 'Big Jungle' is just fine with me ... I don't know how Retep feels though ... he might've had a name in mind already.
Comments (8)
Well, there is a possibility to set up a test version.
But I need the monkey and snake images first. Transparent gifs, if possible, and in both white and black variants.
But I need the monkey and snake images first.
Transparent gifs, if possible, and in both white and black variants.Comments (8)
the pieces have been sent. As for the proposed rule changes ... I think it might be best to test things out with allowing the monkey and snake to enter the den diagonally. it makes things very interesting.
Comments (8)
Since our main goal was to create a less drawish game, I also would suggest to test it out with allowing the new pieces to enter diagonally. Besides, one must not keep a leopard or better near his den, if his own attack is faster
By the way, I am fine with "Big Jungle".
By the way, I am fine with "Big Jungle".
Comments (2)
Retep makes a good point ... it isn't all about defense ... even in standard jungle.
Comments (8)
Since a test environment has been created for you, please don't forget to post any comments or bug reports here. It would be better to have all information centralized.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Comments (8)
will do, Fencer. Testing in progress ... should I post the game #s here for other people to see?
Comments (8)
I think it's not necessary, the point is to play a couple of "real" games, just to see if there is no hidden glitch.
Comments (8)
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