Saturday, February 9. 2008
About the complexity (part 2)
Yes, it is here again, I am posting again what was already posted many times. It seems that this topic is a "fixed star" and never goes off. 
But I hate to copy and paste only, so there is some more information - whether it is popular or not is up to everyone to decide.
Just as Einstein observed that space was not an absolute but depended on the observer's movement in time, and that time was not an absolute, but depended on the observer's movement in space, so it is realized that BrainKing's speed is not an absolute but depended on the observer's location in the web.
I have made an experiment and check BrainKing accounts of all users who have been complaining about BrainKing being too slow for them during the recent month, one by one. The checking procedure has consisted of the following steps:
Outcome:
I have also checked accounts of a few users who have more than 2000 started games at this moment, just to make sure that this number has no negative impact on the performance. The results have been almost the same, except the page generation time which have increased to 1.5 seconds (logically, it takes a little more time to create a page with a table containing 2000 rows).
These tests were performed several times in different hours to check the site behavior in different time zones.
Conclusion: Based on all possible tests we are capable of to do, BrainKing has no known performance issues, regarding the server side. The total duration of all tests also forecloses the local network line bottleneck as a possible cause of slow page loading.
Got it? I hope it is clear enough even for rattlebrains and blog trolls.
Further explanation of possible causes of a slowness:
For any further information, please read About the complexity (part 1) (and I recommend to read the section containing Important! Do not use BrainKing public discussion boards for this purpose. in particular - meaningful comments can be posted here instead), Bug me not! or BrainKing site performance again.
And yes, this article is meant to be provoking. (to be continued - most likely)
But I hate to copy and paste only, so there is some more information - whether it is popular or not is up to everyone to decide.Just as Einstein observed that space was not an absolute but depended on the observer's movement in time, and that time was not an absolute, but depended on the observer's movement in space, so it is realized that BrainKing's speed is not an absolute but depended on the observer's location in the web.
I have made an experiment and check BrainKing accounts of all users who have been complaining about BrainKing being too slow for them during the recent month, one by one. The checking procedure has consisted of the following steps:
- Logging in and displaying the most important BrainKing pages - Main Page (game list), a discussion board page, a game page, a tournament page (with section tables), a fellowship page, a profile page, etc.
- Doing it again with all three styles (castle, simple and no fonts), all major web browsers (the latest versions of Firefox, Internet Explorer and Opera), and three different internet connections (cable, ADSL and mobile GPRS).
Outcome:
- Average page generation time is 0.3 seconds.
- Average page loading time is 1-2 seconds (except GPRS, where the loading time increases to 5-10 seconds, but GPRS is a very slow connection type anyway).
- No performance issues have been observed during a 30 minutes long continuous test.
I have also checked accounts of a few users who have more than 2000 started games at this moment, just to make sure that this number has no negative impact on the performance. The results have been almost the same, except the page generation time which have increased to 1.5 seconds (logically, it takes a little more time to create a page with a table containing 2000 rows).
These tests were performed several times in different hours to check the site behavior in different time zones.
Conclusion: Based on all possible tests we are capable of to do, BrainKing has no known performance issues, regarding the server side. The total duration of all tests also forecloses the local network line bottleneck as a possible cause of slow page loading.
Got it? I hope it is clear enough even for rattlebrains and blog trolls.
Further explanation of possible causes of a slowness:
- BrainKing generates pages too slowly - negative. This is a server-side only feature and is not affected by the target user location. The mentioned tests have proved that the average page generation time is very fast.
- BrainKing works slowly only for certain users - negative. The tests have been done for more than 15 different accounts of different levels, different number of started games and different amount of total displayed information. No anomalies have been detected.
- BrainKing transfers generated pages too slowly - negative. Since the tests have been done using 3 different connections and one of them works through a foreign proxy server (located in Europe but not in our country), it is proved that at least the speed of local lines is sufficient. And it is logical that we cannot affect the performance of other lines which are not controlled by us. That's the nature of the web.
- BrainKing is slow and all other sites are fast - negative. Yes, that's one of the most popular complaints.
And one of the most annoying myths too. A term "brainwashed" suggests itself first of all, but I think it's better to say that people are not used to think globally. I could say with the same "success" that PayPal is the slowest money processing site in the world and all other sites of this kind are operating at a light speed, and it would be just the same nonsense.
For any further information, please read About the complexity (part 1) (and I recommend to read the section containing Important! Do not use BrainKing public discussion boards for this purpose. in particular - meaningful comments can be posted here instead), Bug me not! or BrainKing site performance again.
And yes, this article is meant to be provoking. (to be continued - most likely)
Trackbacks
Trackback specific URI for this entry
No Trackbacks
Comments
Display comments as
(Linear | Threaded)
I mean no disrespect, but your tests don't seem quite extensive enough to justify your attitude toward the complainers. I've seen some of the reports of others with problems, and the tests they've run proved pretty well that their systems were not misconfigured and that there was, indeed, poor performance.
You're acting like the claims have no basis in reality and that your users are lying or "brainwashed". That does not seem reasonable to me. It's entirely possible that there's nothing you can do about this problem, but pretending it doesn't exist at all is not going to help! The problem certainly seems to exist. The question is, what is the cause?
I accept that there is nothing wrong with the individual users' accounts. I also accept that the server is not having problems generating data.
It seems to me that the likeliest cause of the problem is that your server is in a location that simply doesn't connect well to some parts of the world. I'm not sure there's any place in the world that would, though. How do the big international web companies like Google and Yahoo do things?
It's entirely possible that this is the only site hosted in the Czech Republic that many of your users visit. Perhaps the next step in diagnosis should be for users with problems to test other sites that are hosted in the Czech Republic. I don't know any off the top of my head, so can someone else name a few?
Users with problems could also try using proxies in other parts of the world. If the problem really is with their ISP's connection to the Czech Republic, then perhaps going through a proxy somewhere else would improve performance. If they can get fast connections to the proxy, and the proxy gets fast connections to BrainKing, then that could work, even if they can't get fast connections to BrainKing directly. The problem there is finding free, fast proxies in various places to test with. Again, I don't know of any.
I tried pinging brainking.com as a test, but I got no response (100% packet loss!).
Is this to be expected?
You're acting like the claims have no basis in reality and that your users are lying or "brainwashed". That does not seem reasonable to me. It's entirely possible that there's nothing you can do about this problem, but pretending it doesn't exist at all is not going to help! The problem certainly seems to exist. The question is, what is the cause?
I accept that there is nothing wrong with the individual users' accounts. I also accept that the server is not having problems generating data.
It seems to me that the likeliest cause of the problem is that your server is in a location that simply doesn't connect well to some parts of the world. I'm not sure there's any place in the world that would, though. How do the big international web companies like Google and Yahoo do things?
It's entirely possible that this is the only site hosted in the Czech Republic that many of your users visit. Perhaps the next step in diagnosis should be for users with problems to test other sites that are hosted in the Czech Republic. I don't know any off the top of my head, so can someone else name a few?
Users with problems could also try using proxies in other parts of the world. If the problem really is with their ISP's connection to the Czech Republic, then perhaps going through a proxy somewhere else would improve performance. If they can get fast connections to the proxy, and the proxy gets fast connections to BrainKing, then that could work, even if they can't get fast connections to BrainKing directly. The problem there is finding free, fast proxies in various places to test with. Again, I don't know of any.
I tried pinging brainking.com as a test, but I got no response (100% packet loss!).
Is this to be expected?Comment (1)
yes, you can post here.
i don't understand why people have seen how it takes excessive hops to get from BK to them, yet STILL blame BK.
you cannot ping brainking, but you can traceroute...
i don't understand why people have seen how it takes excessive hops to get from BK to them, yet STILL blame BK.
you cannot ping brainking, but you can traceroute...
Comments (2)
As I have said on Brainking's public boards, I personally don't experience enough of a "slowness" to bother me. However, it seems like the people who DO experience this, all started at about the same time. I am curious what a possible explanation for that would be. I have not seen that particular part of the issue explored anywhere yet. (Unless I have missed it)
Some of these people have been on the site many years, and only recently started CONSISTENTLY complaining of speed issues.
I understand that peoples' problems most likely originate in the "path" from the Brainking server to their computers. I think it might help if someone knows a possible reason why this seemed to have started "all at once" for these people, when they went years without such "path" problems.
Some of these people have been on the site many years, and only recently started CONSISTENTLY complaining of speed issues.
I understand that peoples' problems most likely originate in the "path" from the Brainking server to their computers. I think it might help if someone knows a possible reason why this seemed to have started "all at once" for these people, when they went years without such "path" problems.
Comment (1)
I have been a paying customer at bk for a long time, its only been within the last year that this problem, has occured for me.
Sorry fencer, I find your blog entry arrogant and offensive. I am an intelligent person, to say that those of us that have the problem are brainwashed is well just stupid. I don't think anyone was taking shots at you, at least when I posted about the slowness I certainly wasn't. All we are looking for is a solution to the problem that is common among many people. To tell people not to post anymore about the subject is just rude. We post it on the bk board, because perhaps someone might be able to come up with a solution. Whatever happened to freedom of speech, and being able to discuss a subject intelligently.
Sorry fencer, I find your blog entry arrogant and offensive. I am an intelligent person, to say that those of us that have the problem are brainwashed is well just stupid. I don't think anyone was taking shots at you, at least when I posted about the slowness I certainly wasn't. All we are looking for is a solution to the problem that is common among many people. To tell people not to post anymore about the subject is just rude. We post it on the bk board, because perhaps someone might be able to come up with a solution. Whatever happened to freedom of speech, and being able to discuss a subject intelligently.
Comment (1)
the problem, beach, is a few users are rude and arrogant to him! Some postings have been downright hateful. I understand they are frustrated, but the user's rudeness is also unacceptable.
Trust me, he did not think you were taking shots at him.
personally, I think the problem is the 'nodes' that the data stream is passing through. Sadly i do not know enough to explain or be able to prove my there.
I sell on eBay, and I use a place called SellerSourceBook.com to create my templates and host pictures. Last week, I saw a alert on their site, and I wish I had saved a copy of it. It basically said that some of their customers were experiencing trouble with page loads and accessing the site. They had so far been able to determine that it was (ummmm 3rd tier? I forget) connectivity issue in the network and affected only certain ISPs.
i think some are having problems along that line, but its harder to trace when there is so much more distance with international connections.
i hope this makes a little sense.
Sally
Trust me, he did not think you were taking shots at him.
personally, I think the problem is the 'nodes' that the data stream is passing through. Sadly i do not know enough to explain or be able to prove my there.
I sell on eBay, and I use a place called SellerSourceBook.com to create my templates and host pictures. Last week, I saw a alert on their site, and I wish I had saved a copy of it. It basically said that some of their customers were experiencing trouble with page loads and accessing the site. They had so far been able to determine that it was (ummmm 3rd tier? I forget) connectivity issue in the network and affected only certain ISPs.
i think some are having problems along that line, but its harder to trace when there is so much more distance with international connections.
i hope this makes a little sense.
Sally
Comments (2)
Yes, that's right. It was my intention to make it arrogant and offensive because some people are unable to understand (or don't want to understand) any other kind of normal responses. It is not a violation of freedom of speech, that's why everyone is welcome to post comments here. But I don't want to start any further hateful discussion at BrainKing discussion boards, their purpose is a normal talk about BrainKing features and future, not endless attacks against the site owner.
Comments (6)
Hi Fencer,
Well, this is definitely arrogant, glad you reach your objective
On the one side I must say that Brainking is way faster and more responsive than when I started five years ago. But you should still give credit to (paying...) user complaining about the speed. Even if you and me cannot explain why sometimes, seldom Brainking is slow on my site, it does not mean it is related to my setting, connection are what so ever. For example my yahoo mail is extremely slow when using the latest browser on Linux. If Yahoo (or Microsoft
) tells me I am the kind of dumb user that understand nothing I would feel angry.
Anyway, I am impressed you did the tests very professionally,
Regards,
Laurent
Well, this is definitely arrogant, glad you reach your objective
On the one side I must say that Brainking is way faster and more responsive than when I started five years ago. But you should still give credit to (paying...) user complaining about the speed. Even if you and me cannot explain why sometimes, seldom Brainking is slow on my site, it does not mean it is related to my setting, connection are what so ever. For example my yahoo mail is extremely slow when using the latest browser on Linux. If Yahoo (or Microsoft
) tells me I am the kind of dumb user that understand nothing I would feel angry.Anyway, I am impressed you did the tests very professionally,
Regards,
Laurent
Comments (2)
Hi Laurent,
thanks for your response and analysis.
Actually, I give credit to users complaining about the speed (at least to those who can ask about it politely). The problem is that many users obviously think that whatever the problem source is, I always have enough power to solve it, then they don't try to understand the explanation that network based issues are out of our reach and finally start to shout that I don't care about them and do nothing about anything. There is no point to keep any further discussion of that kind (which is what they don't seen to understand either).
This is not a complaint. Just a statement.
thanks for your response and analysis.
Actually, I give credit to users complaining about the speed (at least to those who can ask about it politely). The problem is that many users obviously think that whatever the problem source is, I always have enough power to solve it, then they don't try to understand the explanation that network based issues are out of our reach and finally start to shout that I don't care about them and do nothing about anything. There is no point to keep any further discussion of that kind (which is what they don't seen to understand either).
This is not a complaint.
Just a statement.Comments (6)
I know what you mean it, it is the PEBKAC syndrom. But still there exists some issue with Brainking I cannot explain, sometimes, maybe once a week, for no apparent reason and for limited time, I have experienced non-responsive brainking.
I am sure you will fix this Maybe by adding a backup server in US or on the moon
Regards
Laurent
I am sure you will fix this
Maybe by adding a backup server in US or on the moon Regards
Laurent
Comments (2)
Sure, the PEBKAC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKAC
Not always, but it sometimes happens.
About the occasional BrainKing being not responding, it may be caused by the site upgrade. Each time I add new features, BrainKing must be restarted and this process usually takes up to 10 seconds. But it should not be a big problem anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKACNot always, but it sometimes happens.
About the occasional BrainKing being not responding, it may be caused by the site upgrade. Each time I add new features, BrainKing must be restarted and this process usually takes up to 10 seconds. But it should not be a big problem anyway.
Comments (6)
thanks fencer
another time when brainking is unreachable for a few seconds is when you post the new blog entry to the main site
(at least it was that way a couple of weeks ago, i am less often online now at those times as work is keeping me busy now (how dare they!) .. but some weeks ago it was always unreachable when you submitted the new entry
another time when brainking is unreachable for a few seconds is when you post the new blog entry to the main site
(at least it was that way a couple of weeks ago, i am less often online now at those times as work is keeping me busy now (how dare they!) .. but some weeks ago it was always unreachable when you submitted the new entry
Comments (2)
Hmmmm, interesting. But since there is no connection between BrainKing game site and BrainKing.info blog site, it is not likely that updating one of them causes inaccessibility of the other one. BrainKing receives information about new blog entries via a RSS feed and checks it only once an hour, using a separate process, so even this event cannot have any negative impact to the performance - the worst scenario is that it fails to fetch the most recent entry, so it just displays the previous one which is already cached.
BrainKing receives information about new blog entries via a RSS feed and checks it only once an hour, using a separate process, so even this event cannot have any negative impact to the performance - the worst scenario is that it fails to fetch the most recent entry, so it just displays the previous one which is already cached.Comments (6)
it looks more like the short timeout is happening when the entry is posted to the mainpage of brainking.com (the one at the top which contains the link to the article on here, and which i can remove by clicking on another link)
i think more people made the connection between the timeout and the times at which you post the article & summary .. but i dont remember who
i think more people made the connection between the timeout and the times at which you post the article & summary .. but i dont remember who
Comments (2)
Thanks for doing those tests Fencer
Does this mean we (as in us users who get/have problems sometimes) are imagining it. I would say the only way you will understand is sit at one of our PC's.
I love BrainKing, and last year was fast, just like the 2 nights this week i mentioned on the brainking.com board.
It started getting bad for me (slow & white pages) about end November, onwards.
So i am right in THIS conclusion.
Out of your tests, you say that basically everything your end is working, page generation etc.... and most of us that know about computers, can say our PC's are running fine.
So the problem is obviously in between (one of the nodes as Eriisa says), is that the same as another server, like when we tracerert brainking.com, somewhere the brainking data passes through.
We can not trace all the way back to brainking. I think you said this is for security reason (like trying to Ping the site).
I ask 2 things Fencer.
1) Is there anyway YOU can do a trace thing from YOUR PC to our PC's. In other words try to follow the route that site data takes to our PC's. See which servers or nodes (whatever they are lol) the data passes through. You may see if it get held up if this can be done.
2) I guess this relies on outcome of (1). Contact the owners of that server (node) and ask them why our data is getting held up.
Hope this can be done and may help
p.s. Different subject. I mentioned before about changing my email here and it will not let me. You said you were going to make changes to the .info site, so not to worry. Is this still going to happen as that email is no longer valid
I will try to edit it here, and see if it accepts it.
Does this mean we (as in us users who get/have problems sometimes) are imagining it. I would say the only way you will understand is sit at one of our PC's.
I love BrainKing, and last year was fast, just like the 2 nights this week i mentioned on the brainking.com board.
It started getting bad for me (slow & white pages) about end November, onwards.
So i am right in THIS conclusion.
Out of your tests, you say that basically everything your end is working, page generation etc.... and most of us that know about computers, can say our PC's are running fine.
So the problem is obviously in between (one of the nodes as Eriisa says), is that the same as another server, like when we tracerert brainking.com, somewhere the brainking data passes through.
We can not trace all the way back to brainking. I think you said this is for security reason (like trying to Ping the site).
I ask 2 things Fencer.
1) Is there anyway YOU can do a trace thing from YOUR PC to our PC's. In other words try to follow the route that site data takes to our PC's. See which servers or nodes (whatever they are lol) the data passes through. You may see if it get held up if this can be done.
2) I guess this relies on outcome of (1). Contact the owners of that server (node) and ask them why our data is getting held up.
Hope this can be done and may help
p.s. Different subject. I mentioned before about changing my email here and it will not let me. You said you were going to make changes to the .info site, so not to worry. Is this still going to happen as that email is no longer valid
I will try to edit it here, and see if it accepts it.
Comment (1)
Actually, I can use free proxy server located in different countries and test the page loading speed. I am experimenting with that now.
Comments (6)
I think your latest testing will go a long way towards giving us users a better understanding of what we are dealing with.
I think a lot of people are frustrated lately, and you shouldnt take anything personally, some sort of testing like this, along with the explanation many months ago would have probably alleviated much of the latest
consternation.
I think part of the problem is that we are not accustomed to using sites that are generated from such places as the Czech Republic? Maybe as well, it is more common from your perspective that problems like this are occurring more frequently, since most of the sites you use are coming from far away, here in the US, so you dont understand why we dont understand that this is a fairly typical and common problem for many users on many different sites, if that all makes any sense?
I think a lot of people are frustrated lately, and you shouldnt take anything personally, some sort of testing like this, along with the explanation many months ago would have probably alleviated much of the latest
consternation.
I think part of the problem is that we are not accustomed to using sites that are generated from such places as the Czech Republic? Maybe as well, it is more common from your perspective that problems like this are occurring more frequently, since most of the sites you use are coming from far away, here in the US, so you dont understand why we dont understand that this is a fairly typical and common problem for many users on many different sites, if that all makes any sense?
Comment (1)
Right, that could be it. I've been using the internet since its very beginning, so I am probably better accustomed to its nature.
Anyway, that's why the explanations were posted.
Anyway, that's why the explanations were posted.
Comments (6)
BrainPixels
Map of visitors
Quicksearch
Poker software tip
Use a poker odds calculator if you play online poker - the best way to get quick poker odds calculations.
Sorted archive
Poker rakeback tip
RakeBrain.com - is a site dedicated for poker players wanting to maximize their winnings, informing about poker rakeback. The site guides the poker player to the poker room that suits the player's need best and describes the type of rakeback offered by the poker room and other benefits.
Choose language
Wikipedia Finder
Kategorie
Sdílení weblogu
Blog Administration
Popular Entries
Comments
about Set a Firefox World Record
Sun, 01.06.2008 05:54
Thanks Fencer, i will mention us on the spreadfirefox websit e later
With a link to
brainking.com of course Comment (1)
Sun, 01.06.2008 05:54
Thanks Fencer, i will mention us on the spreadfirefox websit e later
With a link to
brainking.com of course Comment (1) about Filter your poll notifications
Tue, 27.05.2008 11:44
Great option to add
Wou
ld be nice not to have to see
them on the Poll page either.
i.e. Filter at top to s [...]Comment (1)
Tue, 27.05.2008 11:44
Great option to add
Wou
ld be nice not to have to see
them on the Poll page either.
i.e. Filter at top to s [...]Comment (1) about Risky Die (game proposal)
Mon, 26.05.2008 10:48
Looks good Optional rules s
hould be played I think.Comments ()
Mon, 26.05.2008 10:48
Looks good
Optional rules s
hould be played I think.Comments () about Try again
Sat, 24.05.2008 04:54
Sadly it does not seem to work with 3.0 at the moment. I lo ve the new Firefox/BrainKing l ogo you have above, did [...]Comment (1)
Sat, 24.05.2008 04:54
Sadly it does not seem to work with 3.0 at the moment. I lo ve the new Firefox/BrainKing l ogo you have above, did [...]Comment (1)
about Public opinion polls
Thu, 22.05.2008 08:39
Thank you for making a "fe
llowship" tab on the Polls pag
e!
What do you think of the
possibility of everyone [...]Comment (1)
Thu, 22.05.2008 08:39
Thank you for making a "fe
llowship" tab on the Polls pag
e!
What do you think of the
possibility of everyone [...]Comment (1) about Public opinion polls
Wed, 21.05.2008 20:44
If we can't have a page where we can see all fellowship poll s we have voted in (to see res ults as time goes by), c [...]Comment (1)
Wed, 21.05.2008 20:44
If we can't have a page where we can see all fellowship poll s we have voted in (to see res ults as time goes by), c [...]Comment (1)
about BrainKing polls revisited
Tue, 20.05.2008 20:55
I hope you don't mind one more suggestion
I would lik
e one place to see all the pol
ls I am able to vote in, [...]Comment (1)
Tue, 20.05.2008 20:55
I hope you don't mind one more suggestion
I would lik
e one place to see all the pol
ls I am able to vote in, [...]Comment (1) about Play cards with Firefox
Mon, 19.05.2008 13:27
Well this is a cool add-on. I would still like to see the g ames from aigamez.com embedded into Brainking for all [...]Comments ()
Mon, 19.05.2008 13:27
Well this is a cool add-on. I would still like to see the g ames from aigamez.com embedded into Brainking for all [...]Comments ()
about Play cards with Firefox
Mon, 19.05.2008 04:22
I hope the writer of this pack age is still about to re-confi gure it. Seems odd it has not been improved for such a [...]Comment (1)
Mon, 19.05.2008 04:22
I hope the writer of this pack age is still about to re-confi gure it. Seems odd it has not been improved for such a [...]Comment (1)
about FireShot
Sun, 18.05.2008 08:41
Yes, but that won't capture th e entire content of a web page , just the part that's visible (along with things you [...]Comment (1)
Sun, 18.05.2008 08:41
Yes, but that won't capture th e entire content of a web page , just the part that's visible (along with things you [...]Comment (1)
about Icon/photo manipulation
Sun, 18.05.2008 06:15
Fencer, is this the one on our profile page above i.d. ?Comment (1)
Sun, 18.05.2008 06:15
Fencer, is this the one on our profile page above i.d. ?Comment (1)
about FireShot
Sat, 17.05.2008 12:52
Mac OS X has built in function s for capturing the screen, a window, or a clip of any part of the screen. We don't [...]Comments ()
Sat, 17.05.2008 12:52
Mac OS X has built in function s for capturing the screen, a window, or a clip of any part of the screen. We don't [...]Comments ()
Powered by
